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Maverick

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Maverick

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Jul 16 13 9:48 AM

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Who would you say is UTA's biggest rivals? This is in the the Sun Belt section, but isn't limited to SBC teams.

I'll list mine after a few responses.
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Duck

Maverick

Posts: 623 Member Since:03/04/11 Maverick

#1 [url]

Jul 16 13 9:40 PM

Re: UTA's rivals

I know how you feel about the Lumberjerks, but I would put UNT first on my list of rivals. After that, the teams I like most to defeat come from TSSM, SHS, LU, and the State of Louisiana (especially ULL, ULM, McN, NWS). I would like for SMU, UT, OU, Baylor and TCU to be rivals, but we rarely play them, except in baseball (but not SMU).

So that was (1) UNT, (2) The Texas State system, (3) Louisiana, and (4) Big Name schools that don't want to play us.

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GiantBenMav

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Posts: 334 Member Since:03/01/11 Alumni

#3 [url]

Jul 20 13 6:19 AM

Re: UTA's rivals

Fine, bully me into a response ...

for me it is UNT, SFA and SHSU are really it ... I have never really gotten worked up over a LA team ... but hopefully we will be in a stable conference for a while and can grow a few ...

If we stayed in the WAC and kept beating Utah State that could of grown into a good one because in all likely hood that would not of continued being one sided ... but alas no WAC

If Tarelton ever jumps up I think they would make a good rival, we have a long history with them ... I recall hearing about our cadets shooting down a plan of theirs over Arlington (no injuries) ...

Buddy Christ Says: Go Mavs !!!

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FoUTASportscaster

Maverick

Posts: 986 Member Since:07/27/11 Maverick

#4 [url]

Jul 20 13 5:36 PM

Re: UTA's rivals

There's a fine line between bullying and academic discussion...

I started this thread because we seem to be overlooked on the Sun Belt board when a similar question was posed.

For me, it has to be one where it goes both ways. We get up for TCU (when they would actually play us), but I don't believe they have the same circle the calendar mentality. Same with SMU, too (I don't want to get into the whole Cross has elevated us beyond them and they know it).

For it to be a rivalry, there is a feeling that if you don't win much in the season, a win against that team makes it alright, or if you have a winning season (say 20 in basketball or 35 in baseball), but you lost to that team and there is some disappointment.

Geography play a factor. I believe this is obvious, without a need for an explanation.

Is the match-up lopsided? If one team never or very rarely wins, it is hard to be be rivals.

The final piece is do you play for something meaningful. Conference championships, postseason berths, trophies and bragging rights all have an impact in wanting to beat some teams more than normal.

Sadly, realignment has really hurt rivalries across the country. UTA is no exception. My today would have been different a couple of years ago and that would have been different from five years ago.

My picks for UTA's rivals in descending order:

10) New Mexico State - I debated putting Arkansas-Little Rock here, primarily because of the similarities between the Universities. But in the end, I just couldn't. I don't feel any of the reasons above when I think of the Trojans. Our mens basketball team hasn't lost to them in the few times we have played and baseball lost to them for the first time this year when we split the season series.

Meanwhile, we have played NMSU many times in a few sports and were conference mates this past year. We have only played two teams more in football and have faced them in double digits in basketball. In many ways, I am sad we were only conference mates for one year. They could have really moved up the list, especially after our tournament championship loss (they also ended our womens tournament too). Maybe one day they will rejoin the Belt. If they do, I would expect them to move up from 10.

9) Louisiana-Monroe - I really threw them a bone here. UTA, without football has a higher athletic budget than the Warhawks do. Beside the Kolton Browning year and a fluke in the 2012 baseball tournament, they haven't done much winning in any sport. The reason they appear on the list is their proximity and the fact they used to be in the Southland. There is some history, but it was usually along the lines of them smashing us or vice versa, not much in the way of anything else. With their low budget, I don't expect much to change.

8) Lamar - UTA has a long history with Lamar, and it is usually on the losing side. We were never really good in basketball for most of our history, and they were the bellwether of the SLC (21-53 all time). When we got really solid and competitive in baseball they were way better (40-76 all-time). Even in football, the opposite was true (16-6), despite Lamar being tied for first in the most games UTA played against one opponent. We never really played for anything meaningful, though the early aughts saw us and Lamar battling it out for the conference tournament crown it never really was sustained. Now, add in the fact we aren't in the same conference and they have fallen on this list.

7) UTSA - Another entry that would have been higher before realignment, UTSA is off to another conference and the likelihood of playing much in the future is really low. There never were many meaningful moments, though their level of competition was raised in the last few years. The match-ups were at least close: volleyball (27-17), mens basketball (30-37), womens basketball (30-26), baseball (43-30) and softball (31-44). There some great battles for the SLC's auto bid in womens basketball at the middle to end of the last decade. It really was us or them for a bit. I thought if we were able to get a football team around the same time they did, it could have really gone through the roof. As it is, they are now in CUSA and we are in the SBC.

6) Sam Houston - I am really trying to take my feelings out if it and produce what I think the players and admin feel. This may be an example where I didn't succeed. Despite some great mens basketball postseason battles, I never really felt much. Looking at the numbers, I don't know why. We have played them 69 times in volleyball, 56 in mens bball, 57 in womens, 99 in baseball and 94 in softball. Most series are fairly close, with the average in UTA's favor. I think part of it was that their overall athletic department favored football and mens basketball when I was a student, and most everything else wasn't competitive. They had become better overall in recent years, though.

5) Louisiana-Lafayette - This one moved up the list recently. I will totally admit this is the most biased entry. Their fans are the most insecure, cocky I have ever seen. Unlike Arkansas State, they are actively lobbying against the Sun Belt because they feel slighted about being passed over by C-USA. Calling the new Sun Belt Southland 2.0, I am really looking forward to taking their opinions down a peg or two. Most every sport but softball could and maybe should compete right away (their softball team is a CWS contender every year). Their success in the last two New Orleans Bowl has clouded their vision about their whole athletic department, which finished in the lower half of the Sun Belt's Bubba's (Commissioner's) Cup.

4) Arkansas State - I put this one so high for two reasons, the huge amount of history there, and potential for it to be revived in the very near future. First, the history. UTA played Arkansas State the most in football 22 (record is , 49 times in mens bball (13-36) and 68 times in baseball (35-33). Some of the most meaningful football games in SLC history were between these two, and the games were close. Arkansas earned the Pecan Bowl berth in 1968 beating UTA 21-20 in Arlington. That also snapped a 15-game home-winning-streak UTA had. If we had beaten them in 1969, we also would have been champs. There were some good games in the '70's, though nothing that decided a conference championship, but in 1984, had we beat them on homecoming, the SLC race is between us and Louisiana Tech, and a possible at-large to the 1-AA playoffs. The final kick to the crotch with salt on the tip of the boot at an open wound, Arkansas State uses some of the players UTA had to win the 1986 SLC title, one that UTA would have been favored in, according to the coaches (Scott Roper, UTA's kicker in 1985 still holds the ASU record for longest field goal).

In the near term, their basketball has improved, much like ours, so there will be potential for meaningful games. Baseball is lacking, but in that sport, one year can make a huge difference. Volleyball is average to above by Belt standards, which is better than us in recent memory, but if we improve, there is good potential there too. No softball, but I do like the relative proximity between the U's.

3) Stephen F Austin - One that would have been tops up until last year, SFA is the team most every sport circled. Great games in mens basketball, womens finally got the better of them in the mid-aughts on their way to postseason play, they upped the volleyball quality and competed with us for a bit, softball was a near even series between us (61-45). Cross and Kaspar really were two even matched generals when they met. I really feel that if we had a football team during their tenure, we would have been up there just as much with them as Sam Houston.

Then there is the intangibles. There was genuine hate and motivation on both sides. They were one of our most attended games in the last 20 years at Texas Hall. We were one of their higher games at Johnson. Bottom line, a 6-21 season felt alright if you beat SFA twice. Sadly, even playing them now will be a rarity, and maybe one day, folks like me will talk on the message boards, much like the Arkansas State guys do now about UTA, will tell the next ambivalent generation what used to be there.

2) Texas State - This one rivalry has benefited the most from realignment. They were with UTSA in helping us get to the WAC, and now that we are in the Sun Belt with them, they are the current longest-running conference rival, as they joined the SLC in 1987. We match-up well against each other: volleyball (40-22), mens basketball (27-30), womens basketball (27-32), baseball (38-56) and softball (58-48). None of those series is out-of-hand.

Their basketball team has suffered, but their new head coach is .... Danny Kaspar. Expect these two teams to hate each other quick. We lost to them in the baseball tournament to knock us out of the championship game. To any other team, it wouldn't have been that big a deal beyond the loss, but there was something extra in us losing to the Bobcats to keep us from getting the the tournament.

With them being the closest conference mate, the recipe is there for a true rivalry. If we start to play for something meaningful in the future, it will be something special. Unless something radical changes the current landscape, they are the only school capable of attaining number one.

1) North Texas - They may not be conference mates any more, they may not play us often anymore, but there is no love lost between these schools. It extends beyond athletics, because they are so close. In the workplace, "oh you went to UNT, bummer". When they do play, in whatever sport, it is one of the higher attended games of the year, if not the highest.

When it comes to record, UTA actually has the advantage, despite the superiority the UNTers project. Football, 3-9, volleyball 53-7, mens bball, 23-28, womens, 26-29, baseball, 21-1 (when they had a team) and softball, 25-15. All are close, except for volleyball, which heavily favors us. Basketball has been in our favor. Our women's team won seven games last year, one was UNT, and that made it alright.

It even extends to the scheduling. We stuck to our guns this year about UNT honoring our agreement to play. Normal scheduling issues don't make papers in this market, but that did draw headlines.

Bottom line, our proximity to each other, and the fact that most alums of both schools stay in this area, this rivalry will continue to be a hot one, even if the teams don't physically play very often. When they do...watch out. it will be a circle the calendar game.

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UTAMavalum83

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Posts: 142 Member Since:07/13/11 Senior

#5 [url]

Jul 21 13 2:54 PM

Re: UTA's rivals

In my book, it ALWAYS starts with North Texas State (okay UNT). It won't ever return to what it was until we have a FB team though. That was where we've had some of our best competition with the Mean Green.

I'd like to see us have one with Texas State - and of course, that's helped now with continued association in the Belt.

Used to think we had one with UTSA, but I'm not so sure anymore. They've gotten (as my Grandmother would have put it) "too big for their britches" with the FB attendance and Cusa membership. We're not even on their radar anymore.

SMU, TCU, they could absolutely care less about us; unlikely we'll ever have much of a rivalry with them. Ever. Unless . . . .

Some of the best new Belt rivalries will likely be with some of our past opponents: Based on what I've read on the CSNbbs site thus far, it appears the Cajuns will continue their ragin' - but that's pretty much aimed at everyone. If we're competitive at all, we'll have a rivalry with them . . . as long as they remain in the Sun Belt.

Arkansas State was always a good opponent - and we went all the way back to the start of the SLC as charter members with them. ULM, perhaps - but I don't see anything other than closer proximity that might foster a rivalry with them.

New Mexico State is the last one I'll mention - but only if they end up being full members. It won't happen if we don't begin facing them again in the Olympic sports.

But don't forget all those fans at the outlying U's to the east that keep dissing UT A (I'm trying to be politically correct) as us meaning "nothing" to them. I say, let's give 'em something to remember!

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maverick91

Posts: 11 Member Since:05/30/13 Freshmen

#6 [url]

Jul 21 13 3:10 PM

Re: UTA's rivals

Other than UNT, it would have to be Texas State. SFA used to be, but we didn't play them last year and I'm not sure if we are this year. Those two teams (UNT and TSU) are really the only teams that there's any sort of consistent history of games against. I'd love to see a series with SFA or Sam Houston State each year. I don't know how scheduling works but maybe there is another school nearby, similar to us talent-wise that we could develop a yearly series with--UTSA, Tulsa, ORU?

I am looking forward to the Georgia State game this year. I could be wrong but I think I was a senior the year they came to Texas Hall and we got out to a 25-10 lead I think...still recall that game probably one of the most impressive 5 or 10 minute stretches I've seen any Mav team play in all the years I've been going to games. I think we won 110 to 85. We played at a level that could have beaten a lot of top-25 teams on that saturday afternoon. Very reminiscent of the way we started the OU game last year or some of the Southland games the final year at Texas Hall.

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runamuck

Posts: 72 Member Since:01/04/12 Junior

#7 [url]

Jul 22 13 7:41 PM

Re: UTA's rivals

I guess UNtexas for most things is a top rival..in baseball I think tcu or a-m. we really have some good games against them..I think if nmsu brings the rest of their sports to the belt they will become a pretty good rival for us..I dont see much interest in any of the other sun belt besides texas state. If we are only going to be a basketball school, I would rather us be in the mvc..

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UTAPRC

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Posts: 108 Member Since:07/12/13 Freshmen

#8 [url]

Jul 23 13 11:05 AM

Re: UTA's rivals

UNT, Texas State, SFA, UTSA.

I really wish we could get some more of the DFW schools on our basketball schedule like SMU, TCU... too bad UNT bailed this year. I'm really thinking UTA is on the come-up and these schools don't want anything to do with us because we can win.

But what does it take to get them on the schedule? I mean, good competition right down the road, why wouldn't they want to play us? Wishful thinking on my part I suppose...

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Duck

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Posts: 623 Member Since:03/04/11 Maverick

#9 [url]

Jul 23 13 12:51 PM

Re: UTA's rivals

Refusal to join in a local rivalry by the more "established" school is pretty common. In some cases, it takes an act of the State legislature to force the "mother ship" to play the new guys. Louisville had to wait forever to get to play Kentucky. It's really pretty dumb, isn't it?

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FoUTASportscaster

Maverick

Posts: 986 Member Since:07/27/11 Maverick

#10 [url]

Jul 23 13 5:02 PM

Re: UTA's rivals

I get where they are coming from, but I do disagree. They feel they have nothing to gain (you were supposed to beat them) and could lose a lot (you aren't the best team because they beat you and now have the inside track to the beat area recruits).

I think it is dumb because rivalry is the life blood of the sport and the easiest rivalry starter is geography. Does the Philly area still do the five D1 basketball schools tourney?

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UTAMavalum83

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Posts: 142 Member Since:07/13/11 Senior

#11 [url]

Jul 23 13 6:42 PM

Re: UTA's rivals

I'm not sure about Philly - but I think we should have an annual Tarrant Tipoff Classic at the Tarrant County Convention Center - with those four U's. TCU hosts UNT, UTA hosts SMU, both on day one and then a championship (and of course, a earlier consolation game) on day two. Switch it to TCU/SMU and UTA/UNT in alternating years. Put the profits toward some sort of region-wide philanthropy. It could become quite a tradition.

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FoUTASportscaster

Maverick

Posts: 986 Member Since:07/27/11 Maverick

#12 [url]

Jul 24 13 5:57 AM

Re: UTA's rivals

I have always advocated such a thing. I think it would help generate interest in not just that one area, but in the sport in general. Not saying we would ever become a basketball region, but certainly it would increase the four school's profile. It might also encourage the good but not bluechip recruits to start considering the four of us more, since it would generate more interest.

And the thing I don't buy is the we have nothing to gain. Sports is a cyclical thing. In one decade, I can really see all four schools winning it at some point. TCU won't be irreparably harmed by a loss to us. For example, we didn't move from the Southland to the SWC after we beat them in football in 1979. They stayed where they were and did what they did, and same with us (see that horrid 1980 season). We have beaten them in basketball before and nothing really changes. We have owned UNT of late, yet with Jones they consistently were near 20 wins perennially.

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Duck

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Posts: 623 Member Since:03/04/11 Maverick

#13 [url]

Jul 24 13 7:48 AM

Re: UTA's rivals

Here's a link to the Philly Tournament.

http://www.philadelphiabig5.org/

They also will be doing a Thanksgiving tournament this year, the Philly Classic.

I'm thinking maybe UTA just needs to set a date in 2014 and see who they can plug in to a holiday tournament. If UNT, TCU, SMU, Baylor, etc. aren't interested, we can cast a wider net. Maybe SFA, NMSU, Lamar or SHSU would be interested. If we host it, someone will come. Then, the next year, maybe one of the local 4 will be interested.

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FoUTASportscaster

Maverick

Posts: 986 Member Since:07/27/11 Maverick

#14 [url]

Jul 24 13 2:15 PM

Re: UTA's rivals

I looked at the Wiki page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Big_5, and it looks like things are pretty equal. Temple has won or shared the title 27 time, Villanova 21, St Joseph's 20, Penn 12 and La Salle 11. Philadelphia metro is near the same population and same professional sports saturation as us. There's no way it wouldn't work here, if we tried.

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FoUTASportscaster

Maverick

Posts: 986 Member Since:07/27/11 Maverick

#16 [url]

Jul 27 13 8:16 AM

Re: UTA's rivals

So it seems UNT is the consensus #1 followed by Texas State. After that, in no real order, it seems to be SFA and Sam. There were also enough mentions of UTSA, Monroe and New Mexico State (should they be Belt bound) to be included.

Thank you folks for your opinion.

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UTAMavalum83

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Posts: 142 Member Since:07/13/11 Senior

#18 [url]

Aug 16 13 10:30 PM

Re: UTA's rivals

And don't forget Abilene Christian; we used to be rivals back in the early days of the SLC (when I was in elementary school). They're only 2 1/2 hours away, and I'd bet they'd bring a crowd. Plus they have a bunch of DFW area alums.

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